Хэлэлцүүлэг:Македон хэл

Neutrality, comments

I don't understand Mongolian, so I can't speak it, therefore, sorry for using English. I understood that in the article it was written that Macedonian separated from Bulgarian, which is not true, they were never one unified language (the case of Serbo-Croatian for example). It was standardized in 1945, which means the dialects were codified. What Bulgaria thinks is totally different, and even if you want to present the Bulgarian point of view, you still can't say these languages were one, but you can mention that in Bulgaria it is considered as such. You cannot generalize from just one POV. Both languages evolved from Old Church Slavonic, Macedonian from Macedonian recension of the OCS, Bulgarian from Bulgarian recension of the OCS. Best--MacedonianBoy (talk) 11:02, 24 Арванхоёрдугаар сар 2013 (UTC)

Translate this in English: Югослав-Болгарын найрамдлын төлөө Зөвлөлтийн санаачлагаар Болгар бичгээс 1945 онд салж бичгийн дүрэм зохиогджээ. --MacedonianBoy (talk) 11:05, 24 Арванхоёрдугаар сар 2013 (UTC)

Macedonia and Bolgaria are very closer slovic nations. Could you please provide clear scientific proof 1st then we can help you to update this page for you. Please provide at least 2 Macedonian university english links or an USA/UK university links pointing clearly which section and which paragraph is supporting your point then we can update here. The reason your update removed is you could not provide clear scientific reference. Thank you for your effort. Orgio89

you can leave the links here in talks page then after verifying your links we will update the article. Orgio89

First, you remove Macedonian ethnicity from the infobox (it's a common knowledge that Macedonian is spoken by Macedonians). Second, I removed the sentence mentioned above that states (as much as I could translate)that Macedonian separated from Bulgarian. Is this the correct translation? If so, how did you come up with that idea? These languages were never one language, but the official Bulgarian policy likes to see the language as a dialect, no other normal academic or political source claims these languages are one. Closeness is different. I am one of the few promoters of Mongolian culture and language on MK Wiki and I know quite well about your culture and I have never stated that Mongolian and Moghol are the same language, but close, yes. And I haven't added links here, they were in English long before I edited this page.--MacedonianBoy (talk) 11:16, 24 Арванхоёрдугаар сар 2013 (UTC)

You don't realise that Mongolian users added English references. I didn't. You can translate this in Mongolian as a reference to the total number:

|speakers = 2–2.5 million
</nowiki> |date = 1986–1998 </nowiki>
|ref = <ref name="speakers">Although the precise number of speakers is unknown, figures of between 2.1 million (from [http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=mkd Ethnologue]) and 2.5 million ({{Harvcoltxt|Topolinjska|1998}}) have been cited. The general academic consensus is that there are approximately 2 million speakers of the Macedonian language, accepting that "it is difficult to determine the total number of speakers of Macedonian due to the official policies of the neighbouring Balkan states and the fluid nature of emigration." {{Harvcoltxt|Friedman|1985|p=?}}.</ref>

All the sources are academic and non-Macedonian, non-Bulgarian.Please translate this sentence in English: Югослав-Болгарын найрамдлын төлөө Зөвлөлтийн санаачлагаар Болгар бичгээс 1945 онд салж бичгийн дүрэм зохиогджээ.?--MacedonianBoy (talk) 11:23, 24 Арванхоёрдугаар сар 2013 (UTC)

Macedonia was not independent country until recent decades and many confusing dialects or languages of former Yugoslavia here in Asia we generalize a lot yet always tend to base on scientific grounds as much as possible. So please provide us clear scientific organization links supporting your point. Orgio89 (the above sentence says "under Soviet influence/initiative Macedonian got separated from Bolgarian in 1945 and the their grammatics was formed.")

So? This is the problem, you misunderstood something. Macedonia was recognized as an independent nation at that time, but Macedonian was not separated as you claim. Macedonian started standardizing in 1903 with Krste Misirkov's book and the first grammar is from 1880s.

• 1 link
• 2 link
• 3 link. Best--MacedonianBoy (talk) 11:35, 24 Арванхоёрдугаар сар 2013 (UTC)

Do you write any sample sentence both Macedonian and Bulgarian which contains simple words. What difference?--MongolWiki (talk) 12:06, 24 Арванхоёрдугаар сар 2013 (UTC)

Differences in grammar, orthography and vocabulary.

• Macedonian Cyrillic: Ситe чoвeчки суштeствa сe рaѓaaт слoбoдни и eднaкви пo дoстoинствo и прaвa. Tиe сe oбдaрeни сo рaзум и сoвeст и трeбa дa сe oднeсувaaт eдeн кoн друг вo дуxoт нa oпштoчoвeчкaтa припaднoст.
• Bulgarian Cyrillic: Bсички човешки същества се раждат свободни и еднакви по достойнство и права. Tе са надарени с разум и съвест и трябва да се отнасят един към друг в дух на братство.
• Macedonian Latin: Site čovečki suštestva se raģaat slobodni i ednakvi po dostoinstvo i prava. Tie se obdareni so razum i sovest i treba da se odnesuvaat eden kon drug vo duhot na opštočovečkata pripadnost.
• Bulgarian Latin: Vsički čoveški šuštestva se raždat svobodni i ednakvi po dostojnstvo i prava. Te sa nadareni s razum i săvest i triabva da se otnasjat edin kam drug v duh na bratstvo.--MacedonianBoy (talk) 12:09, 24 Арванхоёрдугаар сар 2013 (UTC)

Hello, I don't know about Macedonian language, but I will try to research about it and update this article with an unbiased, correct information, as much as possible. Above asked phrase means: For the sake of friendship of Yugoslav and Bulgaria, Macedonian derived from Bulgarian letter and created its grammar in 1945, with Soviet initiative. I think it is not saying about these 2 languages were same, it is saying these 2 languages had no distinct writing system at that time. If even it is wrong, I apology for our misunderstanding. I hope you understand that it is difficult to find out which info is correct one, since there are way many biased sources. We will try to find this out, as we don't want to post biased info on wiki. If you have anything to ask or clarify, feel free to do so. It is glad to hear you are promoting my culture. Boldoo (talk) 17:32, 24 Арванхоёрдугаар сар 2013 (UTC)

Hi. Regarding the writing system, before the codification, Macedonian used various systems, one was Macedonian Cyrillic based on Misirkov, the second Serbian Cyrillic and the third Bulgarian. After the standardization, Macedonian uses Cyrillic similar in form to the Serbian (differences exist in writing and pronunciation). Regarding the language classification, whoever came to rule Macedonia claimed it is their language, during Serbian occupation Serbia stated that Macedonian is Serbian (today they don't even think about it :)), during Bulgarian occupation they stated its Bulgarian and so on. Pure politics. That's why its difficult for you, as foreigners, to find neutrals sources. Therefore, I provided non-Bulgarian and non-Macedonian sources, primarily American, West European and other Slavic. Again, you can find linguists driven by politics, but that different topic. I started editing here because I saw some major non-neutral povs (not that you did it my intention), and yet I don't want to push my personal opinion. I do write about Mongolia and Mongolic peoples. We have three featured articles about Mongolia (Genghis Khan, Mongolia and Mongolian language, all written by me). Also I have created articles for all administrative units with individual maps in Macedonian (aimags, sums; all of them), language, writing systems, cities, major geographic features and so on. I may need help with proper transcription/ pronunciation of Mongolian. Best--MacedonianBoy (talk) 18:31, 24 Арванхоёрдугаар сар 2013 (UTC)

left - Dialect divisions of Macedonian               right - Bulgarian dialects (in Bulgaria)

Thanks for all your contributions about Mongol world. I am interested in what is your birth place (city, region), native dialect (pictured → Northern, Western, Eastern, Southern ... or something)? --MongolWiki (talk) 19:15, 24 Арванхоёрдугаар сар 2013 (UTC)

Western, does it matters? The Bulgarian dialectal map is used only in Bulgaria, not other academic source in the world uses it.--MacedonianBoy (talk) 19:20, 24 Арванхоёрдугаар сар 2013 (UTC)

OK. Thank you again. --MongolWiki (talk) 19:32, 24 Арванхоёрдугаар сар 2013 (UTC)

Гададар санага гүйцэд бичих чадахгүй нь. Магадгү алсын зочин өнөгин улс төрин нөхцөл байдлар явцу харж байж болох юм. Мон үндэстнэ нэгдмэл байлгахын төл бур.. бол мон.. хэлний аялгу гэж манай эрдэмтэд, ман ардтүмн үзсэр ирсн. Ичмээр дамшиг ч гэсэн энэ хоёр бол манай хоёрос ч илүү адилхан бичгтэй арай ужу харвл нэг хэл юм бна. Үгүч бж магадгү, судлх хэрг. Үнэндэ зочны дээр бичсэниг гүглэр орчулад харахад ялгатай бичсэн сүлин хоёр үгийг хүртэл адил бичиж. Барун аялгутан юм чин аргагү шд. Үүнийг түнд битги орчулж өгөрэй. Зайлул гомдчхно. --MongolWiki (talk) 19:15, 24 Арванхоёрдугаар сар 2013 (UTC)

Ер нь хэл ба аялгууны ялгаа их ойлгомжгүй золиг шиг байгаа юм. Европын хоорондоо бие биенийгээ ойлгохоор аялгуу гэж хэлэгдэхээр хэлнүүдийг тусад нь хэл гэж авч үзээд хятадын хоёр биенээ ойлгохооргүй болчихсон аялгуунуудыг тусдаа хэл биш нэг хэл гэж авч үздэг гэсэн. Гэхдээ би сайн мэдэхгүй л дээ. Харин энэ хэлний хувьд бол их л маргаантай сэдэв шиг байсан. Boldoo (talk) 22:35, 24 Арванхоёрдугаар сар 2013 (UTC)

busad

Makedoni gej neg iimerhuu uls yum baina cnn-ii medee [cnn]. Orgio89

Сая англи вики дээрхи энэ хэлний тухай өгүүллийг уншиж үзлээ. Ер нь л их маргаантай сэдэв бололтой. Бидэнд ч бас яг баттай эх сурвалж байхгүй юм чинь эх хэлнийхээ тухай санаа тавиад манай вики дээрхи нийтлэлийг хүртэл уншаад явж байгаа энэ хүний үзлийг хүндэтгээд аль болох төвийг сахисан мэдээлэл тавиад тэр 1945 онд Болгар бичгээс салсан зэрэг бусдыг эргэлзүүлэхээр юм тавихгүй байсан нь дээр байх гэж бодож байна. Энэ талаар юу гэж бодож байна? Boldoo (talk) 17:37, 24 Арванхоёрдугаар сар 2013 (UTC)

MacedonianBoy өөрийн хэл бичгийн Викид монголтой холбогдох зүйлсийг бичдэг наашаа хүн. Гэлээ гээд энэ нь македон хэл бичиг-болгар хэл бичгийн асуудлыг шийдэж чадахгүй. Доор хаяж англи, орос, болгар, македон дөрвөн Википедиаг харьцуулан байж дэлгэрүүлмээр байна.--MongolWiki (talk) 18:40, 24 Арванхоёрдугаар сар 2013 (UTC)

Yahav ehnii tuvshind Makedon hun helendee sanaa tavij shal hamaagui Mongol huudas ruu nuhaj baigaagaar n yavsan n deer baihaa. Gol n anh hamaagui angli eshleluud tavihaar n bi sahilgagui yumuu geed yumiig n jaahan haasan yum. Ter ooriinh oruulsan nomnuud ch gesen bas dajgui ul toomsorlomoorgui yumnuud baina uuruu duraaraa zasna biz harin hamaagui hari helnii yumnuud l manai huudsand orulj bolohgui. Orgio89

Ene hun yur n dundaj tuvshinii Mongol heltei hun gedgiig humuus medsen baih. Orgio89